Your Arm Hurts? Thank Your Little League, AAU, and Fall Ball Coaches.
Written on April 26, 2011 at 8:06 am, by Eric Cressey
I have a policy when it comes to my writing:
If something is going to be controversial and potentially elicit a negative response from my readers, I "sit" on the topic for 24 hours. During that time, I weigh the decision of whether me publicly writing about something is for the better good – meaning that it'll help people in the long-term even if it makes them recognize that they've been goofing up in the short-term.
I did some thinking on that front last night (actually, for the past several nights), and decided to go through with this blog, as I feel like it's something that every single baseball player, parent, and especially coach ought to read. So, if you're in one of those categories – or are just a baseball fan who loves the game – please spread the word on what you're about to read, whether it's with a Facebook "recommend," "Tweet," or just a friendly email with the link to this article.
If you've perused my Baseball Content page much in the past, you'll know that I don't try to hide the fact that throwing a baseball is an incredibly unnatural and flat-out dangerous motion. It's the single-fastest motion in all of sports, and every day, physically unprepared athletes go out and essentially play with fire every single time they try to light up a radar gun – or even just play catch.
Not surprisingly, when you mix physically unprepared bodies with arguably the most dangerous sporting challenge on the planet (the folks in Pamplona, Spain might argue with me, but that's a blog for another day), athletes get hurt. Arm injuries (like all youth sports injuries) are rising exponentially thanks to not "less athletic athletes" taking part in high-risk sports, but also this participation taking place at all-time high rates thanks to the proliferation of little league all-star teams, AAU teams, fall ball, private pitching instruction, and the baseball showcase industry. A fantastic study by Olsen et al. in 2006 (must-read for anyone involved in baseball development) clearly demonstrated strong associations between injuries requiring surgery and pitching "more months per year, games per year, innings per game, pitches per game, pitches per year, and warm-up pitches before a game" as well as showcase appearances during adolescence. The message was very clear: throw too much – especially at a young age – and you're going to wind up hurt.
Unfortunately, though, many people glaze over numbers in studies (if they ever read them), and while they may walk away with the "overuse is bad" message, they don't appreciate what true overuse really is – especially since it's age-dependent. Fortunately, a February 2011 study from Fleisig et al. showed in no uncertain terms that, in ages 9-14, throwing more than 100 innings per year was associated with a 3.5 times higher risk of elbow or shoulder surgery – or retirement altogether.
To put this into context, I'll first ask you: do you realize how challenging it is to throw 100 innings in a little league season? Let’s say you start baseball the first week of April (little league) and even manage to play on a summer team that runs through the end of July. That’s a four month season: exactly what I was accustomed to growing up – at the absolute most.
If you look at the Major League Baseball leaders in innings pitched, those at the top of the list generally throw about 35 innings per month (4-5 starts each). In other words, high-performance, skeletally mature pitchers in the most elite baseball league in the world are on pace for roughly 140 innings pitched over the first four months of the year. However, there are parents and coaches out there that actually think it's okay to send an 11-year old out there for a comparable number of innings? It's especially troublesome when you realize that younger kids always throw more pitches per inning than their older counterparts, as they don't have good command and insist on trying to strike everyone out instead of pitching to contact here and there.
Just think about how hard that is to do. Major League pitchers throw on a five-day rotation, and Little league games are, at most, twice a week. If a kid pitches once a week for four months, even if he throws complete games every time out (not something I'd advise, for the record), he'd still struggle to hit 100 innings (16 starts x 7 inning games =112 innings). Rats! It's actually tough to overuse kids when the season is kept in check.
So, instead, they add seasons. Join an AAU team (or seven of them). Play fall ball so that you can rack up another seven innings every weekend. Be sure to hit up a few college camps on Saturdays and throw as hard as you can so that your Sunday outing in 25-degree weather is extra miserable. Make sure you see your pitching coach for bullpens as soon as fall ball ends. Get your registration in early for that showcase that's taking place the first week in January. Just do some band work and a couple of half-ass stretches and you'll be fine. Riiiight….good thinking.
At risk of sounding arrogant, I'm good at what I do. I've devoted my life to keeping baseball players healthy. They comprise 85% of our clientele at Cressey Performance, and I work with millions of dollars of arms every off-season and see players from ages 9 to 50+. I do my best to surround myself with the smartest people in strength and conditioning, rehabilitation, and skill-specific training in and outside of the game. I managed the first subpectoral biceps tenodesis in major league history. I can talk mechanics with the best pitching coaches around, write strength and conditioning and throwing programs, manually stretch guys, you name it. I've got two fantastic therapists in my office to do massage, ART, Graston, chiropractic adjustments, and a host of other manual therapy approaches – not to mention great physical therapists nearby who can handle all our complex cases. You know the only things I, we, or anybody on this planet can't control?
Poor judgment by athletes and their parents and coaches.
And that – no doubt about it – is the primary reason that kids get hurt. We can do all the strength training, mobility work, and soft tissue treatments in the world and it won't matter if they're overused – because I'm just not smart enough to have figured out how to go back in time and change history. Worried about whether they're throwing curveballs, or if their mechanics are perfect? It won't matter if they've already accumulated too many innings.
While athletes might be playing with fire each time they throw, the pain presentation pattern is different. You burn your hand, and you know instantly. Pitching injuries take time to come about. Maybe you do microscopic damage to your ulnar collateral ligament each time you throw – and then come back and pitch again before it's had time to fully regenerate. Or, maybe you ignore the shoulder internal rotation deficit and scapular dyskinesis you've got and it gets worse and worse for years – until you're finally on the surgeon's table for a labral and/or rotator cuff repair. These issues might be managed conservatively if painful during the teenage years (or go undetected if no pain is present) – but once a kid hits age 18 or 19, it seems to automatically become "socially acceptable" to do an elbow or shoulder surgery.
Of course, this isn't just applicable to coaches in the 9-14 age group. You see "criminal" pitch counts in the high school and collegiate ranks as well, and while they may be more physically mature than the 9-14 year-olds, that doesn't mean that they're exempt from the short- and long-term consequences.
This is why we need the best coaches at the youngest levels. It's also why we need pitching coaches that understand "managing pitchers" as much as – if not more than – teaching pitching mechanics. And, it's why coaches need to understand the big picture in terms of what different kids can do at different ages, at different times in the year.
It's also while parents need to be proactive with their young pitchers. If a coach isn't going to track his innings – and a 9-year-old kid certainly can't be expected to do so – the parent needs to step up and do so. I've met a lot of parents of kids who have been injured at ages 17-21, and most of them look back with a lot of anger toward coaches at younger levels for overusing their sons. Hindsight is always 20/20, but foresight is what saves an arm. Don't be afraid to step up and say something, as you aren't telling a coach how to do his job; you're protecting your kid, just as you would be locking the door at night or making sure he brushes his teeth.
In terms of planning the competitive year, I have no problem with a 9-14 year-old kid playing baseball 4-5 months of the year, as the other 7-8 months per year should be devoted to at least two other sports. It's basically the "rule of thirds" for long-term athletic development: three sports, four months apiece. Kids can strength-train year round.
At ages 15-16, I'm fine with kids changing things up and going to only two sports. Baseball might occupy 7-8 months, but a big chunk of that should be focused on preparation. So, a kid might start playing catch in November, start his high school season in March, and then play summer ball through the end of July. August through November would be devoted to a fall sport and fall ball would be altogether omitted, as it was the only idea worse than making Rocky V. Kids would, of course, strength-train year-round.
At ages 17 and up, it's fine with me if you want to specialize in baseball, but that doesn't mean you should play year-round. I actually advocate kids only throw for 8-9 months of the year (at most) – which is right on par with what most professional players do. The only thing that'd be different is that the season would be shifted up a bit in the year, as the high school season usually starts a few weeks before the professional season. Pro guys get half of October, then all November and December off from throwing. "Specialized" high school players get August, September, and October off (again, because fall ball is as useful as a trap door in a lifeboat). Strength training is year-round.
You'll notice that there isn't a single penny spent on off-season baseball showcases. That wasn't an accidental omission (read here why I don't like them). If you insist on going to one, pick one between June and early August.
I'm convinced that the next big thing in Major League Baseball's "scouting revolution" is meticulously analyzing what players did when they were younger. If they are going to draft kids, they want to know that they haven't been overworked for years prior to entering professional baseball. You're already seeing this taking place in collegiate baseball based more on an assumption: pitchers from the North are getting more and more opportunities to play down South because coaches recruit them (beyond just talent) under the assumption that they've accumulated less wear and tear on their arms.
This piece might have ruffled some feathers. Kids want to play year-round. Parents want to make kids happy – and they enjoy watching them play. You know what else? Kids love chocolate, and parents want to see kids happy – but that doesn't mean that kids should get a limitless amount of chocolate to consume, right? You put away the Easter candy this week to stress moderation and look out for their long-term well-being.
Coaches enjoy coaching and want to win – and they may take a commentary like this personally because they're the ones who sent a 9-year-old out for 120 innings one year – and now he's the one having the elbow surgery. Or, maybe it's the college coach who let a kid throw 160 pitches in a game and killed his draft status because teams know he'll have a shoulder surgery in three years. Admitting you're wrong is hard enough, but admitting you're wrong and learning from that mistake to help future kids is even harder – but all the more rewarding.
This post wasn't intended to make anyone feel bad, but bring to light an issue (throwing volume) that I think is the absolute most important consideration when taking care of arms. We can do everything right in terms of physical preparation, but if you throw too much – especially at vulnerable ages – none of it matters.
Again, if you could help spread the word on this, I'd really appreciate it. And, feel free to comment below; I'm here to help.
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Eric- Fantastic article. I shared it with the CheckSwing.com community and you received many great compliments from coaches and MLB level guys. Please keep the info flowing. You are helping a great deal of coaches with this info.
You can see the feedback here: http://www.checkswing.com/profiles/blogs/your-arm-hurts-thank-your
Eric,
Good information! I haven’t read all of the comments, so I’m not sure if this was already mentioned or answered, but why were you hesitant to post? From your last post about blogging, you noted that good information was what makes good blog sites. Obviously, you’ve earned your audience, and you’ve established yourself as a credible resource, especially on subject matter concerning your sport. Now, just speak/write from the heart. We’re on your side. It’s a BIG time for change in the business of injury prevention and performance, and you’re not alone in trying to overcome this inertia for the mass movement.
Eric-great article as usual. As echoed by someone earlier, this issue travels to all sports. Most of my clients are basketball players who play basketball year-round with school and AAU. The amount of overuse injuries is staggering. Then you add the fact that many coaches and players in the basketball realm believe that “basketball players don’t need strength training” because they think it will mess up their shot. Oh the stupidity. 9 out of 10 players that I work with have little ankle mobility (or they just wear ankle braces), incredibly weak hips, and almost all complain of knee pain and shin splints. This is true from my youth clients to the athletes I have that are preparing for the draft. Someday they’ll learn.
(In Mexico pitchers starting from7 year old till 12 years old are allow to pitch only fast and change ups, curves are allow starting at 13 years old and above.
I really like this rules. Why in the US kids are allow to pitch curves starting at 11???? Someone need to make a suggestion of changing the little league rules to not allow kids under 13 years old to pitch curves, only fast and change up….that will reduce the amount of little league injuries.)
I have a question in response to your article, which by the way I enjoyed. How does lengthening a season (6 months rather than 4) for a 12 year old impact shoulder and elbow issues if the innings limit is respected. (under 100 innings over course of season). Of course this question is assuming a perfect world, mechanics are perfect and warm up is proper.
Great article Eric! An important insight in the motion of throwing related to the age of a thrower. The big challenge is to create the change on the grass root level but that is why we need to send this article to everyone and their mother. Thank you for sharing!
Eric,
Thank you for writing abouth this. I have been a collegiate coach for the last 9 years and I can’t tell you how many times I have seen this exact thing happen to a young player that has some athletic ability. Too many times does a coach (who a lot of times is his father) let his player(son/daughter) throw too many innings and the kid can’t even pick up his/her arm to shoot a basketball or throw a football. It’s amazing how I have heard of 12-year-old kids getting Tommy John surgery when they don’t even have enough muscles and tendons and ligaments to hurt.
Overuse hurts draft status for sure, as well as collegiate recruiting.
Thank you for taking the time to write this because if you didn’t, the ball would have started rolling after watching the little league world series this year and hearing about how a kid has hurt arm from throwing too many curve balls in a summer.
I appreciate this and I hope that parents and coaches take a close look at this situation this year so that when their son gets to me in a few years, he will still have his arm and his shoulder without a zipper on it!
Articles like this, and analysis of why pitchers get hurt is always interesting to me. I’m a 32 year old who has pitched my whole life, and had a shoulder surgery resulting from a labral tear while back squatting. I also did a lot of pitching and throwing throughout my life. I know a LOT of guys my age who pitched a lot in college, then pitched in summer leagues, then broke down by the time they were seniors. My dad pitched, too, and used to throw for hours every day against the barn as a kid. He pitched for two separate teams in the summers while in high school, and once in H.S. threw seven innings on a Monday, Wednesday, and a Friday. My uncle did the same sort of stuff, and so did a lot of other guys they played with. Most of them never had arm problems. These guys threw hard, too. My dad was mid 80’s, my uncle could touch 90. I topped at 88. I’ve never understood why they didn’t get hurt. One thing they didn’t do, though. We’re from northern Iowa, and they never threw from basically October until April, because there was no place to do it indoors. Maybe that’s it. I just know that I don’t want my boys to end up wrecking their arms, because I know they’re going to be able to throw hard, and if they want to pitch, I want to help them do it-and stay healthy. Thanks for all your work, Eric. I’ll keep reading your stuff, and putting it to good use.
Eric, thanks so much for bringing this much needed subject into the limelight again. It is important that someone with a reputation such as yourself, is willing to tell everyone something many coaches and parents just do not want to hear or accept. Your efforts may just save a few kids arms, and future in the sport!
Eric;
I thoroughly enjoyed this article. If I were you , I wouldn’t be too worried about ruffling anyones feathers. The problem isnt what you wrote, but rather the parents that want to watch their kids destroy their arms while they chase their failed childhood dreams. You see this in every sport unfortunately. Keep up the great posts, and maybe one day the parents will finally get the message.
Eric,
Completely agree. The story of my life and many of my friends. I was wondering if there are any statistics on children/players from the Dominican? Everyone down there is playing year round, I would assume then that injury rates would be that much higher in arms of dominican players?
Eric, great article. Im seeing things on the surgery side of the house and it is really sad what these young pitchers are going through. by the time the kids get to our office its too late, their arm are shot. im planning on being proactive and speaking to some of the youth leauges around my area. THANKS YOU for all your diligent work, pat E.
Not real clear about what you’re really saying. Anyone who engages in strenuous excercise stands the risk of getting hurt. Proper conditioning is vital in preparing anyone, serious athlete or novis, in any strenuous activity. Proper warm-up is also key to injury prevention as well as a common sense approach as to not over exsert oneself.
Statistically, I’m not sure that 3.5 times more likely to injure yourself pitching is significant. I pitched countless innings over almost 20 years without arm injury. I started when I was three…but I threw everything…especially rocks and tennis balls for hours and hours daily during the summer (and most other days throughout the year as well). By the time I was Little League age I was quite proficient in the act of throwing.
I just want folks to be careful not to jump to the wrong conclusions here. I think that pitching injury is more caused by improper conditioning or warm up than over-use. I can see it now…nobody is going to let a kid throw more than a couple of innings per week…period.
Like anything else thats challenging physically…a good common sense approach to proper conditioning over time, technique and warm-up is essential to build bodies for long term activity. But even that offers no iron-clad guarantees.
Hi Eric. Very interesting article. I am a youth baseball coach (in neighboring NP Twp!) for 10-11 yr olds and was wondering about my players use of breaking pitches. Is there a rule of thumb for how many breaking balls (if any) a youth player should pitch per, say 20 pitches. In my intermural regular season, I typically pitch a player 1-2 innings per game, and no more than 3 per week, but I wonder about the boys who are starting to work in breaking pitches and how it could relate to arm trouble. Any advice is ppreciated. Thanks!
1. My hunch is that fields aren’t quite as good in Latin America, and the mounds are generally lower, which would decrease arm stress. Subtle difference, but worth considering.
2. I think that they do a lot MORE THROWING and considerably LESS PITCHING. No AAU scene means that kids have to round up 18 players if they want to have a game. Their lack of organization probably protects them.
3. There’s a greater focus on PLAY than just competition. I don’t get the impression that there are crazy parents fighting over little league trophies.
4. I think that there are more “live” arms, so one player is less likely to get overused. In the U.S., there is a lot more disbursement of talent among several sports, so you wind up with only 1-2 good arms on each team – and they get abused.
5. Diagnostic imaging and quality medical care isn’t as accessible or affordable in Latin America, so you could make the argument that their injury rates are actually very high – but many kids go undiagnosed and either quit or play through pain. Additionally, most of the best players wind up playing in the U.S. – and their injury rates are just as high as American players when they get to pro ball. They may just be finally reaching threshold when they get a bit older – even though their youth experiences were still very stressful on the body.
You’d be surprised how many readers of this blog are likely totally guilty of a lot of the stuff I’m covering. Many coaches try to get better with strength and conditioning because they think it’ll make up for the fact that they abuse their pitchers. Not cool at all…but it’s happening.
Agreed 100%, Coach Ward! Basketball guys are pretty bad, too – and they were actually the motivation for me in Writing The Ultimate Off-Season Training Manual.
Look at the research (and Mike Reinold’s comment above): pitch type really has little to no predictive/associative value to injuries. A kid can learn a curveball whenever he masters his FB and CU – but the problem is that the kids who are good enough to learn curveballs are the ones who get abused. The pitching volume gets them, not the pitch type.
The longer the break between outings, the more time a young athlete will have to recovery from eccentric stress. You can see heightened markers of eccentric activity in the blood for several days after a pitching outing – and it’s this stress that works to reduce ROM in pitchers. Wait until they recover, then throw again…no need for a little kid to be pitching at 75% effort when there are 15 other kids on his team who are ready to throw with their healthy bodies.
Thanks for the addition – and I’ll be the first to tell you that improper conditioning, warm-up, and faulty mechanics are a big problem. However, no matter how well you train, warm-up, and throw, overuse will always get you. I see it every year. We can send the most perfect bodied guy out there with pristine mechanics and an ideal warm-up, and he’ll still break down if he throws 150 pitches every game.
The only one I’d be very careful with right now is the slider, as there is some research showing an 86% increased risk of elbow injury in those who throw it. Most kids that age are just throwing curveballs, though, so it shouldn’t be an issue.
As long as they can command the fastball and change-up, you can start working in the curveball. I don’t know of specific guidelines, but I would ease it in slowly and do more of the practice on it by spinning some in flat-ground sessions as opposed to on the mound.
I totally agree with little league and the coaching tier. We have the best coaches at levels where the players are most advanced, and MOST of the time, the worst coaches where the kids need to be coached the most.
However, there is the trend that I still don’t understand in the major leagues. How is it that pitchers could go from throwing 300-400+ innings in a season to where now it’s a major feat to hit 200-250? There were pitchers back then throwing just as hard as some of the guys today; granted, not as many, but they were still around. The ball was a little heavier and the mound was even higher! According to physics, that should make the stress even more so on the arm of the pitcher, but these guys still threw 300+ innings! In shorter seasons even!
You look at guys like Christy Mathewson, Cy Young, Walter Johnson and even Nolan Ryan hit 300+ a few times. Again the seasons were shorter then on top of that (no when Nolan Pitched, but for the others). Now I get that in the modern game there are more role specific pitchers now like the setup man and closer, but something else has had to change between then and now.
Have mechanics changed that much? If they have, have they changed for the better? Has throwing curveballs and other offspeed pitches changed since then? Because a lot of those guys did have offspeed pitches as well; they weren’t just throwing all fastballs back then. It’s just interesting to me that this has changed over the years and I still cannot pinpoint what exactly has led to the change.
Great article! I hope this isn’t taken as being a knock on the article because as I said earlier, I totally agree with the problems in little league with too many innings. I also totally agree that kids should be multi-sport athletes. It just helps them to become more balanced as an athlete and to learn their body in space (proprioception) much better. I hope this article gets published elsewhere where it will really ruffle some feathers.
Eric
Great post as always. I definitely agree that quantity is an issue with our pitchers. I have read your posts on pitch type as it relates to injury. My question may pertain more to higher levels versus little league. What are your thoughts on the role of split-fingers and changeups in medial elbow issues. To me these are “grip-type” pitches, whereas as the fastball and to a lesser extent curveball are a more relaxed grip. The split and change-up seem to be more significant now than they were years ago. Everyone used to be FB, CB, and straight change. Pitches seem to have evolved more to FB, C/U, and then either curve or split. Assuming scap control is where it needs to be, do you feel that this change has any role in the increased rate of elbow injuries/TJ surgery in higher level pitchers?
Eric
Eric
To clarify what I mean by “grip-type” pithces, I simply mean the flexor mass is much more involved in these pitches than in the other. Thanks again for your work
Great article Eric. I have one question, you menton at least 3 times that these young athletes should strength train year round. At what age do you think kids are old enough to begin strength traing, and then weight taining? Obviously teaching them proper form before hand is key but after that process. Cheers.
Great article but I have to wonder if it’s also the type of pitch these kids are being told to throw, only to be “ahead” of other pitchers. My husband, a former pitcher, will only allow our 13 yr old son (a lefty pitcher) to throw his fastball and change up until he is 14-15. Our son is a force on the mound and there is pressure from coaches for him to throw U’s and curve’s. Ironically I can name atleast 5 travel teams in oujr area that are down pitchersdue to elbow problems …. all were throwing major league pitches.
Excellent job with the cold hard truth. I am a father of an 11 year old and my first move was to take him to a good pitching coach before he had the opportunity to pitch in a game. He’s had 4 lessons in the past 2 years and has no joint pain from pitching. He threw 75 pitches in 4 innings a few weeks ago and the next morning he said his muscles were a little tight. The arrogant coaches and parents will never see this article, but, for me, it is MY job to present my son with opportunities and protect him. That’s why I’m studying everything I can put my eyes on…
Right on, as usual! As a father of a 7 year old boy – experiencing baseball for the first time – your concern; injury prevention and education for our youngest athletes and coaches is shared. I sent your article to several Youth Little League coaches in Natick. Thank you!
I was the pitching coach for the 13/14 in Savannah,Ga for 7 years prior to moving to Mississippi. I was pretty burned out and didn’t really want to coach any longer, but as fate would have it, the 11/12 team needed one more coach mid season, so I agreed to help out. During my very first game I noted our “Starting Pitcher” seemed to me to have thrown a lot of pitches through 3 innings. I asked the “Pitching Coach…??” what the pitch count was on the 11 year old pitcher. The pitching coach informed me that he didn’t count pitches, he just let the boy’s throw until they began to struggle and then he would pull them! Needless to say, I was dumbfounded! I insisted to the Head Coach that I take over as pitching coach, which he agreed. The former pitching got angry and quit…(thankfully).
I said all this to say that your blog is dead on right. Stupid coach’s can seriously hurt young players!
Not a single person disagrees? hmmm….? either everyone here is a frontrunner without doing their own studies or else these are fake posts to make the article seem more appealing. I am a HS coach, own a private baseball “club”, run a private baseball exposure operation, and scout part time for the Braves and I can only agree that overuse is rampant.
Otherwise, the idea that “fall ball” is a as useful as a trap door in a submarine is VERY well misinformed and unfair to kids that don’t play a fall sport especially since fall usually has better weather than spring seasons. Additionally, almost every GREAT exposure event from the east coast (Jupiter Florida) to the west coast (Peoria AZ) is in the fall. More kids are recognized and pay for college and or get drafted from fall exposure than any other season.
I think that if you could keep from generalizing the fact that there should be a rest period and that it should come between “certain” months, then I would tend to agree more. As for the number of innings used, I can’t agree more. We use a formula to eliminate overuse in a single outing and usually limits the innings a kid would throw in a season. If we have a kid that throws more than 25 in an inning we count each over 25 as 3. We limit those kids to 75 in an outing. this ensures we use every possible arm but never overuse a single one of them.
In your words, I know this will ruffle feathers on what is obviously a bandwagon blog but I can’t go without addressing what I believe to be an article that is based on poorly trained athletes but never give credit to the ones that are trained properly, are rested, and do perform to a high level well into the pro game regardless whether they play AAU, Fall Ball, and/or HS baseball. It would be more appropriate to give some of us credit for doing our jobs carefully and well.
Seeing my grandson enjoying and dominating the game is the best thing for a grandfather could ask. Teaching this kids with proper techniques in a younger age can really make a big different on their life. I really hope to see my grandchild as a professional athlete.
Eric, my names Davin and im 17, im a starting shortstop for my highschool. I’ve been looking online for articles to tell me what is wrong with my arm, because it hurts when i throw at my hardest on the opposite side of my elbow. From reading this article, i realize that it was from previous overuse. Which makes since, because from the age of 10-15 i played baseball year-round on traveling teams and middle school teams. I read on your article that “it is too late” . Does this mean that there is NO WAY that i can fix my arm problem at all? Please respond. Baseball is my life, and i’d hate for it to be my past.
I would suggest you see a qualified elbow specialist in your area. You simply aren’t going to get healthy reading on the internet and guessing as to what the issue is. Get it checked out!
Its more than just baseball. I swam year round from the time I was 6 or 7. I was lucky enough to earn D1 athletic scholarships from swimming, but at age 25, I’m rehabbing my 3rd major reconstructive shoulder surgery..in under 3 years. My club coach I swam with in high school used to make us swim 4 hour practices over breaks as a “training camp” and told me my shoulder pain was soreness and I needed to suck it up. Then my first college coach told me that it was totally normal that my shoulders were too impinged to dry my own hair. My surgeon found that I had torn my labrums from about 230-630 on the joint. Also my capsules were more like tissue paper than connective tissue. Swimming paid for my undergrad and has allowed me to travel and set my career path, but the damage has been incredibly detrimental, both physically and mentally. I teach at a major D1 institution, with a very good baseball team and I just hope that the players I teach, having seen what I went through, try to take care of themselves. Really great article. Parents, listen when your kids say they’re in pain. Kids, don’t be afraid to tell your parents and/or coaches you hurt.
The push to constantly be more and more involved is doing nothing but hurt this next generation. Helicopter parenting is great, but if you’re going to insist on helicopter parenting, pay attention when your kids are hurt and maybe they won’t be borderline bionic by the time they can rent a car.
Just a note of caution about the curveball issue. Just because the guys in the lab coats haven’t found a relationship between use of that pitch and injuries doesn’t mean that there isn’t one. I am highly skeptical of this claim as most kids change their mechanics in throwing a curve (or any other non-fastball pitch), and we all have seen kids who fall in love with a curve and then end up with a sore arm. Remember, science is tricky business, with lots of variables to consider (and try to measure). I think it would be dangerous to assume that use of other pitches is not an issue in arm injuries. If we are truly going to watch out for these kids, let’s not forget about our own experiences and intuitions completely, especially when those lead us to err on the side of caution.
I agree with Mike above, in that limits per inning should be looked at. One pitcher on the team I am the pitching coach on(9-10 yr. olds) threw 50 pitches over three innings in his last outing and then we took him out because the weather had changed dramatically from one week to the next and it was very warm that day, and also because his count went from 13 in the first, 16 in the second, to 21 in the third and he was visibly getting tired.
On the other hand, I watched a travel team(10u) earlier this year throw a pitcher 90 pitches in three innings. That is obvious over use.
Same innings pitched, different use. That can be a HUGE difference over the course of a season.
Thanks Mike, I’m going to start using your 3 for 1 on counts over 25. I may even take it a step further and go 2 for 1 from 20-25.
I am not completely disagreeing with Eric’s views though. Both make good arguments, and just need a good blend of the best strategies, which is what I try to do
Great Article. I coach an 11u travel baseball team in the midwest. We play upwards of 70 games per year. I try to be vigilante with arm care. I read all the articles and research that I can to educate myself to the greatest extent possible. I’ve never seen the 100 inning reference, and it scared the crap out of me. I went back and looked at all of my stats. I’m happy to report, I’ve never had a kid throw more than 56 innings, which has probably cost us some games. Thanks for the research and keep it coming.
Eric,
I agree about the pitching problem, but there is also a problem with catchers. I realize that catchers aren’t throwing downhill or using different grips but when do you decide that they have caught enough? My son caught almost every single game in our local Little League last year. Our season lasted about 10 weeks and consisted of 20 games at 6 innings each. I don’t remember, but if each game went the full 6 innings then you are looking at 120 innings as a catcher. That doesn’t even include All Stars. Has anyone ever done a study on catchers?
Agree 100%, Rick. Just don’t see the same number of arm injuries in catchers, though. Throwing off the mound is the issue, as it increases arm stress significantly.
Eric–
My college P son just discovered your site last night although I’ve looked at it numerous times.
Couldn’t agree with you more on time off. He’s 21, 6’2″, 210lb and a workout fanatic. However, he alos recognizes that he needs to not throw for 2-3 months which is why he’s forgoing summer ball this year. Senior year is coming up and wants to keep his arm in healthiest condition for season and draft. Got to shut it down for a while.
Great article, appreciate the insite.
I have a 9 year old pitcher playing travel ball from April – July, we train indoors January – March. Mechanically he is strong, and throws hard — in the low 50s. He starts a couple of times per week, and may get to 50 pitches per game. He has absolutely zero soreness or tightness either before or after pitching, and none the next day. If his arm feels “110%”, should I worry about allowing him to close (one inning) in between starts? I feel like I should follow the published guidelines, but he looks like he his throwing effortlessly and has no arm soreness or fatigue whatsoever.
April 27th, 2011 at 9:34 am
Eric- Fantastic article. I shared it with the CheckSwing.com community and you received many great compliments from coaches and MLB level guys. Please keep the info flowing. You are helping a great deal of coaches with this info.
You can see the feedback here: http://www.checkswing.com/profiles/blogs/your-arm-hurts-thank-your
April 27th, 2011 at 10:45 am
I’m embarassed for our society that this article is necessary. You are so dead on right!
April 27th, 2011 at 12:13 pm
Eric,
Good information! I haven’t read all of the comments, so I’m not sure if this was already mentioned or answered, but why were you hesitant to post? From your last post about blogging, you noted that good information was what makes good blog sites. Obviously, you’ve earned your audience, and you’ve established yourself as a credible resource, especially on subject matter concerning your sport. Now, just speak/write from the heart. We’re on your side. It’s a BIG time for change in the business of injury prevention and performance, and you’re not alone in trying to overcome this inertia for the mass movement.
April 27th, 2011 at 1:39 pm
Eric-great article as usual. As echoed by someone earlier, this issue travels to all sports. Most of my clients are basketball players who play basketball year-round with school and AAU. The amount of overuse injuries is staggering. Then you add the fact that many coaches and players in the basketball realm believe that “basketball players don’t need strength training” because they think it will mess up their shot. Oh the stupidity. 9 out of 10 players that I work with have little ankle mobility (or they just wear ankle braces), incredibly weak hips, and almost all complain of knee pain and shin splints. This is true from my youth clients to the athletes I have that are preparing for the draft. Someday they’ll learn.
April 27th, 2011 at 1:47 pm
(In Mexico pitchers starting from7 year old till 12 years old are allow to pitch only fast and change ups, curves are allow starting at 13 years old and above.
I really like this rules. Why in the US kids are allow to pitch curves starting at 11???? Someone need to make a suggestion of changing the little league rules to not allow kids under 13 years old to pitch curves, only fast and change up….that will reduce the amount of little league injuries.)
April 27th, 2011 at 2:46 pm
I have a question in response to your article, which by the way I enjoyed. How does lengthening a season (6 months rather than 4) for a 12 year old impact shoulder and elbow issues if the innings limit is respected. (under 100 innings over course of season). Of course this question is assuming a perfect world, mechanics are perfect and warm up is proper.
April 27th, 2011 at 3:41 pm
Great article Eric! An important insight in the motion of throwing related to the age of a thrower. The big challenge is to create the change on the grass root level but that is why we need to send this article to everyone and their mother. Thank you for sharing!
April 27th, 2011 at 4:12 pm
Eric,
Thank you for writing abouth this. I have been a collegiate coach for the last 9 years and I can’t tell you how many times I have seen this exact thing happen to a young player that has some athletic ability. Too many times does a coach (who a lot of times is his father) let his player(son/daughter) throw too many innings and the kid can’t even pick up his/her arm to shoot a basketball or throw a football. It’s amazing how I have heard of 12-year-old kids getting Tommy John surgery when they don’t even have enough muscles and tendons and ligaments to hurt.
Overuse hurts draft status for sure, as well as collegiate recruiting.
Thank you for taking the time to write this because if you didn’t, the ball would have started rolling after watching the little league world series this year and hearing about how a kid has hurt arm from throwing too many curve balls in a summer.
I appreciate this and I hope that parents and coaches take a close look at this situation this year so that when their son gets to me in a few years, he will still have his arm and his shoulder without a zipper on it!
Thanks,
Coach Pla’
April 27th, 2011 at 7:26 pm
Articles like this, and analysis of why pitchers get hurt is always interesting to me. I’m a 32 year old who has pitched my whole life, and had a shoulder surgery resulting from a labral tear while back squatting. I also did a lot of pitching and throwing throughout my life. I know a LOT of guys my age who pitched a lot in college, then pitched in summer leagues, then broke down by the time they were seniors. My dad pitched, too, and used to throw for hours every day against the barn as a kid. He pitched for two separate teams in the summers while in high school, and once in H.S. threw seven innings on a Monday, Wednesday, and a Friday. My uncle did the same sort of stuff, and so did a lot of other guys they played with. Most of them never had arm problems. These guys threw hard, too. My dad was mid 80’s, my uncle could touch 90. I topped at 88. I’ve never understood why they didn’t get hurt. One thing they didn’t do, though. We’re from northern Iowa, and they never threw from basically October until April, because there was no place to do it indoors. Maybe that’s it. I just know that I don’t want my boys to end up wrecking their arms, because I know they’re going to be able to throw hard, and if they want to pitch, I want to help them do it-and stay healthy. Thanks for all your work, Eric. I’ll keep reading your stuff, and putting it to good use.
April 27th, 2011 at 8:20 pm
Eric, thanks so much for bringing this much needed subject into the limelight again. It is important that someone with a reputation such as yourself, is willing to tell everyone something many coaches and parents just do not want to hear or accept. Your efforts may just save a few kids arms, and future in the sport!
April 27th, 2011 at 8:58 pm
Eric;
I thoroughly enjoyed this article. If I were you , I wouldn’t be too worried about ruffling anyones feathers. The problem isnt what you wrote, but rather the parents that want to watch their kids destroy their arms while they chase their failed childhood dreams. You see this in every sport unfortunately. Keep up the great posts, and maybe one day the parents will finally get the message.
April 28th, 2011 at 11:08 am
Eric,
Completely agree. The story of my life and many of my friends. I was wondering if there are any statistics on children/players from the Dominican? Everyone down there is playing year round, I would assume then that injury rates would be that much higher in arms of dominican players?
April 28th, 2011 at 4:27 pm
Eric, great article. Im seeing things on the surgery side of the house and it is really sad what these young pitchers are going through. by the time the kids get to our office its too late, their arm are shot. im planning on being proactive and speaking to some of the youth leauges around my area. THANKS YOU for all your diligent work, pat E.
April 29th, 2011 at 3:06 am
Not real clear about what you’re really saying. Anyone who engages in strenuous excercise stands the risk of getting hurt. Proper conditioning is vital in preparing anyone, serious athlete or novis, in any strenuous activity. Proper warm-up is also key to injury prevention as well as a common sense approach as to not over exsert oneself.
Statistically, I’m not sure that 3.5 times more likely to injure yourself pitching is significant. I pitched countless innings over almost 20 years without arm injury. I started when I was three…but I threw everything…especially rocks and tennis balls for hours and hours daily during the summer (and most other days throughout the year as well). By the time I was Little League age I was quite proficient in the act of throwing.
I just want folks to be careful not to jump to the wrong conclusions here. I think that pitching injury is more caused by improper conditioning or warm up than over-use. I can see it now…nobody is going to let a kid throw more than a couple of innings per week…period.
Like anything else thats challenging physically…a good common sense approach to proper conditioning over time, technique and warm-up is essential to build bodies for long term activity. But even that offers no iron-clad guarantees.
April 29th, 2011 at 9:09 am
Hi Eric. Very interesting article. I am a youth baseball coach (in neighboring NP Twp!) for 10-11 yr olds and was wondering about my players use of breaking pitches. Is there a rule of thumb for how many breaking balls (if any) a youth player should pitch per, say 20 pitches. In my intermural regular season, I typically pitch a player 1-2 innings per game, and no more than 3 per week, but I wonder about the boys who are starting to work in breaking pitches and how it could relate to arm trouble. Any advice is ppreciated. Thanks!
April 30th, 2011 at 6:17 am
Michael,
I think there are a quite a few considerations:
1. My hunch is that fields aren’t quite as good in Latin America, and the mounds are generally lower, which would decrease arm stress. Subtle difference, but worth considering.
2. I think that they do a lot MORE THROWING and considerably LESS PITCHING. No AAU scene means that kids have to round up 18 players if they want to have a game. Their lack of organization probably protects them.
3. There’s a greater focus on PLAY than just competition. I don’t get the impression that there are crazy parents fighting over little league trophies.
4. I think that there are more “live” arms, so one player is less likely to get overused. In the U.S., there is a lot more disbursement of talent among several sports, so you wind up with only 1-2 good arms on each team – and they get abused.
5. Diagnostic imaging and quality medical care isn’t as accessible or affordable in Latin America, so you could make the argument that their injury rates are actually very high – but many kids go undiagnosed and either quit or play through pain. Additionally, most of the best players wind up playing in the U.S. – and their injury rates are just as high as American players when they get to pro ball. They may just be finally reaching threshold when they get a bit older – even though their youth experiences were still very stressful on the body.
April 30th, 2011 at 6:17 am
Thanks, Bill!
April 30th, 2011 at 6:18 am
Nick,
You’d be surprised how many readers of this blog are likely totally guilty of a lot of the stuff I’m covering. Many coaches try to get better with strength and conditioning because they think it’ll make up for the fact that they abuse their pitchers. Not cool at all…but it’s happening.
April 30th, 2011 at 6:19 am
Agreed 100%, Coach Ward! Basketball guys are pretty bad, too – and they were actually the motivation for me in Writing The Ultimate Off-Season Training Manual.
April 30th, 2011 at 6:21 am
Francisco,
Look at the research (and Mike Reinold’s comment above): pitch type really has little to no predictive/associative value to injuries. A kid can learn a curveball whenever he masters his FB and CU – but the problem is that the kids who are good enough to learn curveballs are the ones who get abused. The pitching volume gets them, not the pitch type.
April 30th, 2011 at 6:23 am
The longer the break between outings, the more time a young athlete will have to recovery from eccentric stress. You can see heightened markers of eccentric activity in the blood for several days after a pitching outing – and it’s this stress that works to reduce ROM in pitchers. Wait until they recover, then throw again…no need for a little kid to be pitching at 75% effort when there are 15 other kids on his team who are ready to throw with their healthy bodies.
April 30th, 2011 at 6:24 am
Thanks, Coach Pla! Need more college coaches picking up on this!
April 30th, 2011 at 6:25 am
Great points! We’re comparing apples and oranges in looking at players in years past’s ability to throw a ton of innings.
April 30th, 2011 at 6:25 am
Derek, check out my comment RE: Latin American players from earlier. Thanks!
April 30th, 2011 at 6:27 am
Jim,
Thanks for the addition – and I’ll be the first to tell you that improper conditioning, warm-up, and faulty mechanics are a big problem. However, no matter how well you train, warm-up, and throw, overuse will always get you. I see it every year. We can send the most perfect bodied guy out there with pristine mechanics and an ideal warm-up, and he’ll still break down if he throws 150 pitches every game.
April 30th, 2011 at 6:29 am
Larry,
The only one I’d be very careful with right now is the slider, as there is some research showing an 86% increased risk of elbow injury in those who throw it. Most kids that age are just throwing curveballs, though, so it shouldn’t be an issue.
As long as they can command the fastball and change-up, you can start working in the curveball. I don’t know of specific guidelines, but I would ease it in slowly and do more of the practice on it by spinning some in flat-ground sessions as opposed to on the mound.
May 2nd, 2011 at 10:06 am
I totally agree with little league and the coaching tier. We have the best coaches at levels where the players are most advanced, and MOST of the time, the worst coaches where the kids need to be coached the most.
However, there is the trend that I still don’t understand in the major leagues. How is it that pitchers could go from throwing 300-400+ innings in a season to where now it’s a major feat to hit 200-250? There were pitchers back then throwing just as hard as some of the guys today; granted, not as many, but they were still around. The ball was a little heavier and the mound was even higher! According to physics, that should make the stress even more so on the arm of the pitcher, but these guys still threw 300+ innings! In shorter seasons even!
You look at guys like Christy Mathewson, Cy Young, Walter Johnson and even Nolan Ryan hit 300+ a few times. Again the seasons were shorter then on top of that (no when Nolan Pitched, but for the others). Now I get that in the modern game there are more role specific pitchers now like the setup man and closer, but something else has had to change between then and now.
Have mechanics changed that much? If they have, have they changed for the better? Has throwing curveballs and other offspeed pitches changed since then? Because a lot of those guys did have offspeed pitches as well; they weren’t just throwing all fastballs back then. It’s just interesting to me that this has changed over the years and I still cannot pinpoint what exactly has led to the change.
Great article! I hope this isn’t taken as being a knock on the article because as I said earlier, I totally agree with the problems in little league with too many innings. I also totally agree that kids should be multi-sport athletes. It just helps them to become more balanced as an athlete and to learn their body in space (proprioception) much better. I hope this article gets published elsewhere where it will really ruffle some feathers.
May 2nd, 2011 at 10:17 am
Eric
Great post as always. I definitely agree that quantity is an issue with our pitchers. I have read your posts on pitch type as it relates to injury. My question may pertain more to higher levels versus little league. What are your thoughts on the role of split-fingers and changeups in medial elbow issues. To me these are “grip-type” pitches, whereas as the fastball and to a lesser extent curveball are a more relaxed grip. The split and change-up seem to be more significant now than they were years ago. Everyone used to be FB, CB, and straight change. Pitches seem to have evolved more to FB, C/U, and then either curve or split. Assuming scap control is where it needs to be, do you feel that this change has any role in the increased rate of elbow injuries/TJ surgery in higher level pitchers?
Eric
May 2nd, 2011 at 10:19 am
Eric
To clarify what I mean by “grip-type” pithces, I simply mean the flexor mass is much more involved in these pitches than in the other. Thanks again for your work
Eric
May 2nd, 2011 at 1:54 pm
i agree in general but see no need to push other sports on a kid who only has interest in one. one sport/baseball is fine..just use common sense.
May 3rd, 2011 at 9:19 am
Super article, Eric…I’ll definitely continue spread the word!!
May 3rd, 2011 at 4:43 pm
Great article Eric. I have one question, you menton at least 3 times that these young athletes should strength train year round. At what age do you think kids are old enough to begin strength traing, and then weight taining? Obviously teaching them proper form before hand is key but after that process. Cheers.
May 8th, 2011 at 9:52 am
Great article but I have to wonder if it’s also the type of pitch these kids are being told to throw, only to be “ahead” of other pitchers. My husband, a former pitcher, will only allow our 13 yr old son (a lefty pitcher) to throw his fastball and change up until he is 14-15. Our son is a force on the mound and there is pressure from coaches for him to throw U’s and curve’s. Ironically I can name atleast 5 travel teams in oujr area that are down pitchersdue to elbow problems …. all were throwing major league pitches.
May 9th, 2011 at 11:34 am
Excellent job with the cold hard truth. I am a father of an 11 year old and my first move was to take him to a good pitching coach before he had the opportunity to pitch in a game. He’s had 4 lessons in the past 2 years and has no joint pain from pitching. He threw 75 pitches in 4 innings a few weeks ago and the next morning he said his muscles were a little tight. The arrogant coaches and parents will never see this article, but, for me, it is MY job to present my son with opportunities and protect him. That’s why I’m studying everything I can put my eyes on…
May 12th, 2011 at 6:50 am
Thanks Eric,
Right on, as usual! As a father of a 7 year old boy – experiencing baseball for the first time – your concern; injury prevention and education for our youngest athletes and coaches is shared. I sent your article to several Youth Little League coaches in Natick. Thank you!
Mike Kozul
September 22nd, 2011 at 1:44 am
I was the pitching coach for the 13/14 in Savannah,Ga for 7 years prior to moving to Mississippi. I was pretty burned out and didn’t really want to coach any longer, but as fate would have it, the 11/12 team needed one more coach mid season, so I agreed to help out. During my very first game I noted our “Starting Pitcher” seemed to me to have thrown a lot of pitches through 3 innings. I asked the “Pitching Coach…??” what the pitch count was on the 11 year old pitcher. The pitching coach informed me that he didn’t count pitches, he just let the boy’s throw until they began to struggle and then he would pull them! Needless to say, I was dumbfounded! I insisted to the Head Coach that I take over as pitching coach, which he agreed. The former pitching got angry and quit…(thankfully).
I said all this to say that your blog is dead on right. Stupid coach’s can seriously hurt young players!
Thanks for shooting from the hip!
NB
December 17th, 2011 at 2:49 pm
Not a single person disagrees? hmmm….? either everyone here is a frontrunner without doing their own studies or else these are fake posts to make the article seem more appealing. I am a HS coach, own a private baseball “club”, run a private baseball exposure operation, and scout part time for the Braves and I can only agree that overuse is rampant.
Otherwise, the idea that “fall ball” is a as useful as a trap door in a submarine is VERY well misinformed and unfair to kids that don’t play a fall sport especially since fall usually has better weather than spring seasons. Additionally, almost every GREAT exposure event from the east coast (Jupiter Florida) to the west coast (Peoria AZ) is in the fall. More kids are recognized and pay for college and or get drafted from fall exposure than any other season.
I think that if you could keep from generalizing the fact that there should be a rest period and that it should come between “certain” months, then I would tend to agree more. As for the number of innings used, I can’t agree more. We use a formula to eliminate overuse in a single outing and usually limits the innings a kid would throw in a season. If we have a kid that throws more than 25 in an inning we count each over 25 as 3. We limit those kids to 75 in an outing. this ensures we use every possible arm but never overuse a single one of them.
In your words, I know this will ruffle feathers on what is obviously a bandwagon blog but I can’t go without addressing what I believe to be an article that is based on poorly trained athletes but never give credit to the ones that are trained properly, are rested, and do perform to a high level well into the pro game regardless whether they play AAU, Fall Ball, and/or HS baseball. It would be more appropriate to give some of us credit for doing our jobs carefully and well.
December 29th, 2011 at 12:53 pm
Seeing my grandson enjoying and dominating the game is the best thing for a grandfather could ask. Teaching this kids with proper techniques in a younger age can really make a big different on their life. I really hope to see my grandchild as a professional athlete.
January 21st, 2012 at 4:40 pm
Eric, my names Davin and im 17, im a starting shortstop for my highschool. I’ve been looking online for articles to tell me what is wrong with my arm, because it hurts when i throw at my hardest on the opposite side of my elbow. From reading this article, i realize that it was from previous overuse. Which makes since, because from the age of 10-15 i played baseball year-round on traveling teams and middle school teams. I read on your article that “it is too late” . Does this mean that there is NO WAY that i can fix my arm problem at all? Please respond. Baseball is my life, and i’d hate for it to be my past.
January 22nd, 2012 at 1:32 pm
Davin,
I would suggest you see a qualified elbow specialist in your area. You simply aren’t going to get healthy reading on the internet and guessing as to what the issue is. Get it checked out!
April 15th, 2012 at 11:19 am
Eric, check out this website, http://boydsworld.com/data/pitchcount.html. Its a pitch count watch for NCAA players.
April 15th, 2012 at 12:14 pm
Eric,
Its more than just baseball. I swam year round from the time I was 6 or 7. I was lucky enough to earn D1 athletic scholarships from swimming, but at age 25, I’m rehabbing my 3rd major reconstructive shoulder surgery..in under 3 years. My club coach I swam with in high school used to make us swim 4 hour practices over breaks as a “training camp” and told me my shoulder pain was soreness and I needed to suck it up. Then my first college coach told me that it was totally normal that my shoulders were too impinged to dry my own hair. My surgeon found that I had torn my labrums from about 230-630 on the joint. Also my capsules were more like tissue paper than connective tissue. Swimming paid for my undergrad and has allowed me to travel and set my career path, but the damage has been incredibly detrimental, both physically and mentally. I teach at a major D1 institution, with a very good baseball team and I just hope that the players I teach, having seen what I went through, try to take care of themselves. Really great article. Parents, listen when your kids say they’re in pain. Kids, don’t be afraid to tell your parents and/or coaches you hurt.
The push to constantly be more and more involved is doing nothing but hurt this next generation. Helicopter parenting is great, but if you’re going to insist on helicopter parenting, pay attention when your kids are hurt and maybe they won’t be borderline bionic by the time they can rent a car.
April 15th, 2012 at 7:47 pm
Vinny – this is outstanding stuff! Definitely something I’ll bookmark. Definitely won’t be sending anyone to Missouri State, either!
April 16th, 2012 at 5:09 am
Just a note of caution about the curveball issue. Just because the guys in the lab coats haven’t found a relationship between use of that pitch and injuries doesn’t mean that there isn’t one. I am highly skeptical of this claim as most kids change their mechanics in throwing a curve (or any other non-fastball pitch), and we all have seen kids who fall in love with a curve and then end up with a sore arm. Remember, science is tricky business, with lots of variables to consider (and try to measure). I think it would be dangerous to assume that use of other pitches is not an issue in arm injuries. If we are truly going to watch out for these kids, let’s not forget about our own experiences and intuitions completely, especially when those lead us to err on the side of caution.
April 25th, 2012 at 2:53 pm
I agree with Mike above, in that limits per inning should be looked at. One pitcher on the team I am the pitching coach on(9-10 yr. olds) threw 50 pitches over three innings in his last outing and then we took him out because the weather had changed dramatically from one week to the next and it was very warm that day, and also because his count went from 13 in the first, 16 in the second, to 21 in the third and he was visibly getting tired.
On the other hand, I watched a travel team(10u) earlier this year throw a pitcher 90 pitches in three innings. That is obvious over use.
Same innings pitched, different use. That can be a HUGE difference over the course of a season.
Thanks Mike, I’m going to start using your 3 for 1 on counts over 25. I may even take it a step further and go 2 for 1 from 20-25.
I am not completely disagreeing with Eric’s views though. Both make good arguments, and just need a good blend of the best strategies, which is what I try to do
May 23rd, 2012 at 9:33 am
Great Article. I coach an 11u travel baseball team in the midwest. We play upwards of 70 games per year. I try to be vigilante with arm care. I read all the articles and research that I can to educate myself to the greatest extent possible. I’ve never seen the 100 inning reference, and it scared the crap out of me. I went back and looked at all of my stats. I’m happy to report, I’ve never had a kid throw more than 56 innings, which has probably cost us some games. Thanks for the research and keep it coming.
May 26th, 2012 at 7:28 pm
Eric,
I agree about the pitching problem, but there is also a problem with catchers. I realize that catchers aren’t throwing downhill or using different grips but when do you decide that they have caught enough? My son caught almost every single game in our local Little League last year. Our season lasted about 10 weeks and consisted of 20 games at 6 innings each. I don’t remember, but if each game went the full 6 innings then you are looking at 120 innings as a catcher. That doesn’t even include All Stars. Has anyone ever done a study on catchers?
May 27th, 2012 at 2:17 pm
Agree 100%, Rick. Just don’t see the same number of arm injuries in catchers, though. Throwing off the mound is the issue, as it increases arm stress significantly.
June 19th, 2012 at 4:57 pm
Eric–
My college P son just discovered your site last night although I’ve looked at it numerous times.
Couldn’t agree with you more on time off. He’s 21, 6’2″, 210lb and a workout fanatic. However, he alos recognizes that he needs to not throw for 2-3 months which is why he’s forgoing summer ball this year. Senior year is coming up and wants to keep his arm in healthiest condition for season and draft. Got to shut it down for a while.
June 27th, 2012 at 7:55 am
Eric,
Great article, appreciate the insite.
I have a 9 year old pitcher playing travel ball from April – July, we train indoors January – March. Mechanically he is strong, and throws hard — in the low 50s. He starts a couple of times per week, and may get to 50 pitches per game. He has absolutely zero soreness or tightness either before or after pitching, and none the next day. If his arm feels “110%”, should I worry about allowing him to close (one inning) in between starts? I feel like I should follow the published guidelines, but he looks like he his throwing effortlessly and has no arm soreness or fatigue whatsoever.